Welcome to the interview with React-Query’s creator Tanner Linsley, feel free to jump around the questions through the Table of Contents below or grab a cup of coffee and read on.
- For those who might not know you tell us about yourself
- Do you have a formal education in computer science? Did you learn about algorithms and data structures? How important for developers do you think it is to cover the basics of computer science?
- How did you come up with the idea for react-query?
- What tools or techniques would you like to explore next?
- What do you think about React?
- Who influenced the most your way of programming and problem solving? Did you have any mentors in your programming career?
- What piece of code has influenced the most ?
- I have covered my programming principles in the past, what are you programming principles?
- Do you think that code can have certain art-like traits?
- Do you find any parallels between programming and other craft-like activities outside software?
- How does your day look like? How is your life-work balance?
- I saw you are a proud member of “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”, what can you tell us about that?
- What is faith to you? What does being religious mean to you?
- How do your religious values and practices change the way you code, do open source and build software in general?
- How do you handle your mental health? How do you handle anxiety, overthinking, dreaming about code?
- Do you exercise?
- What are the most important soft skills developers should have? (i.e. good oral / written communication, emotional intelligence such as empathy, team working, mentoring, learning, teaching, upwards high level communication, handling anxiety, meditation, etc)
- What is like to be a parent? How does that affect your programming?
- How do you feel about the massive impact your libraries have in so many companies that use them?
- What do you like about the open source community? How do you handle toxic members in our community?
- How do you balance unpaid work and paid work?
- Free space for Tanner, what would you like to say?
A while back ago I was seeking for something to solve data fetching pains that me and my team were facing while building and maintaining about a million lines of mostly React code.
The way we were managing data fetching was (and partially still is) by using Redux and manually writing actions, reducers, selectors, normalization, bookkeeping such as loading and error states and when/how to trigger those requests, which up to this day is pretty common way of doing data fetching with React.
The verbosity and lack of guarantees and abstractions made the process painful, developers dreaded fetching new data and the PR reviews dragged because everybody has their own opinion of what an action and a reducer should look like in theory.
We tried some other Redux based solutions without much success because the fundamental problem is that Redux was not built to do data fetching, you can of course use it successfully but you there’s a lot of unfolded complexity you need to manage mostly manually. Granted, with Redux-Toolkit and React hooks things look better but many of the mentioned problems still stand.
I have explored this in more details in a previous post: Stop using Redux for Data Fetching, use this instead
Since I didn’t find any existing solutions, I started designing my own and these were some of the core characteristics it had:
- No concept of the Redux state, actions and reducers, it is just a glorified smart structured Cache
- Data is stored by a user defined cache key
- Users can mutate the cache when performing HTTP mutations (i.e. PUT)
- No duplicated HTTP calls: components should be able to define their data dependencies and the abstraction should take care of de-duping them.
- Fetching new data should require minimal boilerplate
- Automatic bookkeeping: loading, errors, freshness of the data should all be handled automatically
- The interface should be similar to Apollo Client
And what I have designed and was about to start coding ended up already existing and being Tanner’s react-query, a smart, small, simple, battle tested, typescript based (currently) library of my dreams that was far beyond my original design and far beyond what I’ve probably could have made by myself.
And that’s how I feel connected to Tanner, I like the way he writes code and I share a lot of the same values, I like how he approaches open source and how he always appears as a positive proactive individual which is super fun to work with.
And here I bring you the interview with Tanner Linsley, react-query creator, open source maintainer, dad, family man, religious man and so much more, let’s get to know him:
- How long have you been programming?
- Where are you from?
- What languages and tools have you been working with?
JS, React, HTML, CSS
- How did you learn to program?
I learned all on my own. Trial and error and lots of Google searches.
- Did you get a technical degree?
I partially completed degrees in Audio Engineering and Web Design / Development from UVU in Utah, but did not complete them before entering the workforce.
- What companies have you worked on?
I am one of three co-founders at Nozzle.io, which I have worked on for the last 7 years
Do you have a formal education in computer science? Did you learn about algorithms and data structures? How important for developers do you think it is to cover the basics of computer science?
I do not, but I have invested the necessary amount of effort over the years to understand these very important concepts as I go. I think what’s important is simply learning what is necessary in the moment to accomplish the task you have been given. If that includes learning about several algorithms and data structures, then great! If that only means learning about one of them, then that’s also fine. Just keep moving forward.
The pains that inspired React Query were years in the making, even before hooks. I was a heavy Redux user for a long time, but when hooks came out, I knew they would serve as a great API to finally ditch Redux in favor of something less manual. I came up with the initial inspiration for React Query when I saw a library called Draqula was released. It was almost like a lightweight Apollo and something clicked about its patterns and style. I decided to draw from its patterns a bit and React Query was born.
I would like to explore serverless technology, 3d rendering, and general framework design.
React is fantastic. The only problem I see around it right now is the unknown / uncertain direction the core React team may be taking. I really hope that the entire ecosystem will be able to follow, but as of late, concurrent mode has been proving to be a difficult constraint for much of the ecosystem to understand and prepare for, sometimes even resulting in rewrites of entire tools to satisfy those constraints. We’ll see what happens. At the time of writing, Suspense for data fetching is still not finalized, but I wish it would be. The current APIs are just fine. I personally don’t want to work on React, but with the current component API, hooks, and suspense, I am pretty happy with where we’ve ended up.
Who influenced the most your way of programming and problem solving? Did you have any mentors in your programming career?
My co founders, Derek Perkins and Joe Bergevin have had a profound impact on how I think, design and reason about software engineering and I dare say I’ve also returned the favor as we’ve grown together.
The only other prominent mentor I had early on in my career was the, now niche-famous, Kent C Dodds. He helped me set up my first testing suite in Angular (believe it or not) and I watched him give his first lightning talk at our local meetup (which is also the very night I met my co founders).
I have covered my programming principles in the past, what are you programming principles?
It’s definitely an expression of creativity, but it’s more like designing a custom tool. So in the same way I admire the design of say the Kreg Jig (a woodworking tool), I can also admire the design of a tool. Not because it is beautiful or clean, but because of the new abilities it gives me.
Wood working. I think both involve creative problem solving.
franleplant’s note: I have been planing on writing about the many parallels I see between woodworking and programming but I’ve never finished finding the right way to put it, in fact I have like 5 or 6 written and audio drafts of it, let me know if you are interested in my exploring this parallel in future posts.
- Up at 5
- Train at 5:30
- Study and day prep
- At work at 6:30
- Startup (Nozzle) and interleaved OSS
- On the train at 4:30
- Home at 5:45
- Family Time
- Family asleep at 10
- Passion work until 11
- Up at 7
- Breakfast, study and day prep
- Desk at 8
- Startup (Nozzle) and interleaved OSS
- Lunch around 12 with the family
- Stop work at 5
- Family Time
- Family asleep at 10
- Passion work until 12/1
I feel like I have a pretty awesome balance because my family is happy, my work is doing well, and I feel fulfilled.
I saw you are a proud member of “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”, what can you tell us about that?
I was raised in a religious family and I am very grateful for it. I was faced with my own decision in my youth to either follow or reject what I had grown up learning about and after losing my father early on in life and finding peace through Christ and the teachings of his gospel through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I decided I wanted to serve a full-time mission for 2 years and share that same gospel with others. I served as official missionary and representative of Christ, spending anywhere between 6 weeks and 6 months in various cities and towns across the state of Santa Catarina in Brazil. It was life changing and I was super grateful to be able to serve the people there. I learned to love thousands of people there as I would my family and aided them in coming to know the gospel of Christ, developing faith in him, repenting and witnessing a true change in their hearts and countenance, being baptized and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. I was even blessed to see many of those individuals grow closer as families and eventually be sealed for eternity as a heavenly family unit in one of Christ’s holy temples. All of this strengthened my personal testimony as well that the Bible and Book of Mormon are inspired works of truth, that Christ lived, was resurrected, and still guides his church today through Prophets and Apostles, preparing the world for his second coming.
Faith is the hope and belief of things that we cannot or will not see, but feel are true. Faith is what keeps me positive and helps me maintain my relationship with Christ, in whom my faith is based. Being religious to me simply means allowing God to prevail in your life. If you have a desire to do the things he would have you do, you are definitely being “religious”. It means continuously repenting and trying to be better to ourselves, our family, Christ and our Heavenly Father.
How do your religious values and practices change the way you code, do open source and build software in general?
I believe in charity, the true love of Christ and this helps me every day to give more freely of my time to help others, to be understanding and patient, even when others are not.
I recognize that it’s okay to burnout every now and then. If you see it coming, you can prepare and recover more quickly. I don’t tend to overthink, but I do stress about non-programming things, mostly around my family’s general well-being and relationships.
Nope. I’ll pay for that later, I’m 100% sure.
What are the most important soft skills developers should have? (i.e. good oral / written communication, emotional intelligence such as empathy, team working, mentoring, learning, teaching, upwards high level communication, handling anxiety, meditation, etc)
It’s harder to find as much time as I used to, but it forces me to prioritize more, learn faster, and ultimately get the same amount or more done as I did before. y children also serve as a wonderful inspiration and motivation for doing my best.
I’m happy that they are able to use them. I wish I had something to show for it though. I do have a few sponsors who have graciously decided to do just that. Thank you sponsors! But it’s hard to see so many fortune 500 companies use your stuff and never even really say thanks. I realize that’s the risk you run with open source software, so I don’t beat myself up about it.
The open source community is fun! I mostly enjoy talking and interacting with other maintainers or people who are equally as stressed or invested as I am. The other people I love talking with are the genuine fans and helpers who aren’t necessarily massive impact generators by themselves, but through their comments and small contributions, they collectively help so much. Toxic members are not welcome in my projects or communities. I have no trouble enforcing a code of conduct and bringing down the hammer when action needs to be taken. It can be hard, but I feel it’s important to do this with a loving attitude as well and welcome those individuals back when they have had a change of heart.
I have a startup that sustains most of my living expenses. It was hard to get there through. We had zero-to-little money for a very long time, but are now doing well. As long as it’s mutually beneficial to my work, I spend a bit of time on open source. It then powers our own software, makes it better, markets our company (usually as a sponsor) and also gives me more visibility, which I will ultimately use to further my startups reach (or other projects in the future).
Become a sponsor on Github or better yet convince your boss/company to become a sponsor! If every user of my library donated $1 a month, I could build so much more and it would ensure that my libraries stay free and up to date forever.
Buy my React Query Essentials course!
Tell your marketing/SEO team to use Nozzle.io. I’ll give them a personal trial and make it worth their while!
Wow! What a treat! Thank you so much Tanner for spending time talking with me, it is awesome to get to know someone that you have so much things in common on the other side of the continent.
Make sure you support Tanner’s work as well as this blog for more content like this, and let me know if you’d like more interviews like this in future posts.